Tilting Quad Velomobile
- Thread starter velocoupe
- Start date
Thanks Paul.
I've been looking at your World HPV posts. Lots of nice building going on, but I must have missed the post about your training regime.
Yikes! It's been over 4 months since I posted anything. As a number of AZers have already mentioned, "Sometimes life just gets in the way".
Now, about the tilting and steering stuff. Yes, steering in the opposite direction (counter-steer) to lean towards the inside of the curved path is not something I have to think about. But, if I start to manually steer before I initiate the desired lean using the tilt apparatus, I can feel the velo wanting to lean in the opposite direction of my simple steering maneuver. This serves to remind me that I have to FIRST lean and then use simple steer to tighten the turning radius and to enjoy the feeling as I relax my hold on the tilt apparatus to allow the velo to return back to upright as I exit the corner.
I've been told that this action (the force returning the velo back to upright) is the result of counter-steering, but it totally feels like simple steer to me
All the best with your low racer.
Cheers
Yes, the quad feels stable even when traction is temporarily lost. I think I's because I'm always applying the mechanical apparatus and when I add the thumb steering it becomes "dual tilt control" ( steer to tilt control & direct tilt control).
That may not be an accurate explanation, but it seems to work out well, and it's good fun.
Cheers
So, my velo got some ink outside of the AZ site. I did provide the info for the "New Atlas" article which included info about this excellent DIYers site (but that did not appear in the article). Then within a few days of the 1st article, and without my knowledge, additional articles just mushroomed onto the internet and included my name etc.
Well, now that my cover is blown, I'm going to follow Paul's approach and sign-off using my first name.
Cheers
Wally
Well, now that my cover is blown, I'm going to follow Paul's approach and sign-off using my first name.
Cheers
Wally
Wally
We [ AZ community ] are just pleased you are fit and well and able to carry on with your project.
Training not going as well as I would like , 3 times a week I do about 14 miles with 5 hills.
Figured training would consist of attacking the hills with gusto and getting fitter ' no gain without pain ' approach.
So this week for instance Monday rained off , Wednesday took Mum out for breakfast so no ride , Friday may go out with SWMBO and maybe the same next Monday.
So that plan ain't working is it !
Paul
We [ AZ community ] are just pleased you are fit and well and able to carry on with your project.
Training not going as well as I would like , 3 times a week I do about 14 miles with 5 hills.
Figured training would consist of attacking the hills with gusto and getting fitter ' no gain without pain ' approach.
So this week for instance Monday rained off , Wednesday took Mum out for breakfast so no ride , Friday may go out with SWMBO and maybe the same next Monday.
So that plan ain't working is it !
Paul
Wow, I missed this post.
The velo seems to defy the ice like it was on tracks.
Great stuff.
Brad
Thanks Brad.
Yes, I'm pleased with the quad's performance in our winter conditions.
It's unfortunate that gov't regulations will not legally recognize the quad as an e-bike. I'm firmly convinced that a vehicle's dimensions (primarily width) should be used to determine it's suitability (functional fit with cycle lanes) rather than the number of wheels.
As it is, current regulations permit the delta to be eligible for e-assist, but my equally sized quad, with its better traction, is not. Well, as they say, know when to pick your battles. For me, it's a lot quicker and easier to switch from the quad to a delta than it is to try to change gov't regulations.
SWITCHING from QUAD to DELTA
The first photo illustrates the form of the delta's single-sided swingarm. Like on the quad, this swingarm, in combination with the non-rotating hub, keeps the steering axis vertically aligned with the center line of the tire and retains the zero degree rake steering axis, as found on your everyday caster
wheel.
The 12 mm square tube located to the outside of the swingarm is part of the manual steering. It serves to connect the steering knuckle with the front wheel tie rod. As with the quad, the manual steering linkage remains passive and does not interfere with the operation of F to C steering while moving forward.
The next photo shows that the quad's dual front swingarms (with wheels attached) just drop-out as a complete unit. I just disconnected the hose clamps from the two front spindles and the tie rods from the steering knuckle.
The weight difference between the dual front swingarms (with both wheels attached) and the single-sided swingarm (with it's one wheel) is 6.8 Kg. This weight loss will likely be made-up by the added weight of the e-assist components.
In the next photo, the delta's front swingarm is attached to a spindle which is fastened to a mounting bracket on the main frame.
I installed a rubber stopper between the back end of the swingarm and a plate attached to the main frame. This provides adjustable suspension travel for the front wheel which is currently at 20 mm.
My next post will focus on adding e-assist to the delta.
Cheers
Wally
Yes, I'm pleased with the quad's performance in our winter conditions.
It's unfortunate that gov't regulations will not legally recognize the quad as an e-bike. I'm firmly convinced that a vehicle's dimensions (primarily width) should be used to determine it's suitability (functional fit with cycle lanes) rather than the number of wheels.
As it is, current regulations permit the delta to be eligible for e-assist, but my equally sized quad, with its better traction, is not. Well, as they say, know when to pick your battles. For me, it's a lot quicker and easier to switch from the quad to a delta than it is to try to change gov't regulations.
SWITCHING from QUAD to DELTA
The first photo illustrates the form of the delta's single-sided swingarm. Like on the quad, this swingarm, in combination with the non-rotating hub, keeps the steering axis vertically aligned with the center line of the tire and retains the zero degree rake steering axis, as found on your everyday caster
wheel.
The 12 mm square tube located to the outside of the swingarm is part of the manual steering. It serves to connect the steering knuckle with the front wheel tie rod. As with the quad, the manual steering linkage remains passive and does not interfere with the operation of F to C steering while moving forward.
The next photo shows that the quad's dual front swingarms (with wheels attached) just drop-out as a complete unit. I just disconnected the hose clamps from the two front spindles and the tie rods from the steering knuckle.
The weight difference between the dual front swingarms (with both wheels attached) and the single-sided swingarm (with it's one wheel) is 6.8 Kg. This weight loss will likely be made-up by the added weight of the e-assist components.
In the next photo, the delta's front swingarm is attached to a spindle which is fastened to a mounting bracket on the main frame.
I installed a rubber stopper between the back end of the swingarm and a plate attached to the main frame. This provides adjustable suspension travel for the front wheel which is currently at 20 mm.
My next post will focus on adding e-assist to the delta.
Cheers
Wally
Nice design!
The last photo might be tricking my eyes, seems you have a negative caster angle?
Look forward to seeing the ride video.
Brad
The last photo might be tricking my eyes, seems you have a negative caster angle?
Look forward to seeing the ride video.
Brad
Thanks Brad. I'm pleased that the 12 mm sq. tube pivots on the outside of the bend (in the 30 mm sq, tube). This allowed me to max-out the steer angle of the front wheel when turning to the left.
You're right. The axis appears to have a negative caster angle. I think it has to do with the camera angle. In my next post I will try to include a photo from a more accurate perspective.
Cheers
Wally
ADDING e-ASSIST Thanks to an AZ post
About two years ago I mentioned to Hugh that I was looking forward to eventually getting my project to the stage of his completed e-delta. At that time I was planning on using a 500 watt single-sided All Axle Hub motor. That hub motor, which is designed to be placed onto the front wheel(s) of a tadpole, could also be mounted onto the left rear swingarm of my velo.
Well, this past winter, as I thought about installing that hub motor, I began to consider the structural modifications I would need to perform on the velo to accommodate it. For starters, the hub motor comes with a spoke wheel which would require slightly different dimensions for the swingarm. I would also have to modify the tail section to accommodate the placement of the caliper brake between the spoke wheel and the shell.
To top it off, after these modifications, I would still end-up with miss-matched wheels (a spoke e-hub on the left, with its externally mounted brake, and a yellow Fiber Glass wheel on the right, with its brake tucked inside the shallow dished wheel behind the blue aero-cover). Not good.
So, I began to look for optional ways to install e-assist. That's when I came across AZ members discussing the pros and cons of a 450 watt brush motor with controller etc. This item is sold as a kit designed to be mounted onto the left side of a bicycle to drive a sprocket fastened to the spokes of the rear wheel.
Well, I immediately saw the possibility of this kit to be easily mounted onto my velo's rear swingarm without modifications.
So I ordered the kit.
The photo below shows the 450 watt motor mounted onto the left rear swingarm with a chain to drive the original FG wheel.
So, thank you to the AZ members for posting that information. (I think it was stormbird and Popshot).
I now have an inexpensive and simple to install e-assist set-up.
The next photos show that, except for the single-sided front swingarm with wheel attached, the rest of the velo remains unchanged.
The camera angle in the next photo depicts the zero degree rake of the steering axis a little better.
My next step is to fabricate a fiber glass nosecone for the delta.
Cheers.
Wally
About two years ago I mentioned to Hugh that I was looking forward to eventually getting my project to the stage of his completed e-delta. At that time I was planning on using a 500 watt single-sided All Axle Hub motor. That hub motor, which is designed to be placed onto the front wheel(s) of a tadpole, could also be mounted onto the left rear swingarm of my velo.
Well, this past winter, as I thought about installing that hub motor, I began to consider the structural modifications I would need to perform on the velo to accommodate it. For starters, the hub motor comes with a spoke wheel which would require slightly different dimensions for the swingarm. I would also have to modify the tail section to accommodate the placement of the caliper brake between the spoke wheel and the shell.
To top it off, after these modifications, I would still end-up with miss-matched wheels (a spoke e-hub on the left, with its externally mounted brake, and a yellow Fiber Glass wheel on the right, with its brake tucked inside the shallow dished wheel behind the blue aero-cover). Not good.
So, I began to look for optional ways to install e-assist. That's when I came across AZ members discussing the pros and cons of a 450 watt brush motor with controller etc. This item is sold as a kit designed to be mounted onto the left side of a bicycle to drive a sprocket fastened to the spokes of the rear wheel.
Well, I immediately saw the possibility of this kit to be easily mounted onto my velo's rear swingarm without modifications.
So I ordered the kit.
The photo below shows the 450 watt motor mounted onto the left rear swingarm with a chain to drive the original FG wheel.
So, thank you to the AZ members for posting that information. (I think it was stormbird and Popshot).
I now have an inexpensive and simple to install e-assist set-up.
The next photos show that, except for the single-sided front swingarm with wheel attached, the rest of the velo remains unchanged.
The camera angle in the next photo depicts the zero degree rake of the steering axis a little better.
My next step is to fabricate a fiber glass nosecone for the delta.
Cheers.
Wally
It looks great as a trike!
Thanks Brad.
Yeh, The delta turned out to be somewhat different looking, especially with the single-sided front swingarm poking-out of the nose cone.
The next photo shows that, although the cut-out on the nose cone is quit small, I still get the desired swingarm suspension travel because the cut-out is close to the pivot point of the swingarm.
The photo also shows a bit of the yellow coroplast that I installed as a splash pan below the seat section to keep that area a little drier.
I'm now testing the delta's ride feel in various situations such as traversing a side-slope, bumps, corners, etc. Hope to have some videos to share soon.
Cheers, Wally
Odd you have made lots of progress and I don't seem to have any emails nor seen it flagged up in the New Posts ....
Never the less caught up with you and it is all very impressive
, so frustrating we will never see the beast or get to ride it.
Your skills are way beyond my ' hacker ' abilities , thankfully I could not use it where I live otherwise I would be pestering you for some build instructions
take care Paul
Never the less caught up with you and it is all very impressive
, so frustrating we will never see the beast or get to ride it.Your skills are way beyond my ' hacker ' abilities , thankfully I could not use it where I live otherwise I would be pestering you for some build instructions
take care Paul
