Quad build.

Indeed asking a single bike chain designed to take at most 400W from an elite athlete to handle 2000W is a tall ask. The problem with a second one is that only the tightest will take the load. The slacker one will not take any load until the tightest one has worn enough to equalise the tension perfectly. A stronger single chain would be better.
Indeed asking a single bike chain designed to take at most 400W from an elite athlete to handle 2000W is a tall ask. The problem with a second one is that only the tightest will take the load. The slacker one will not take any load until the tightest one has worn enough to equalise the tension perfectly. A stronger single chain would be better.

Indeed, ad that the quad is heavy and that as we ride off-road, the force is even higher, especially as we use the throttle to assist. You get a lot of power extra and you feel that.

We use the strongest bike chain we could find.
We must see if that holds it.
I think for touring ok, but for off-road i don't know.
2 paralel will work, but i need to see if it will fit. Maybe missing the mounts a bit.

But first a bit more testing.
Wow is all I can say , they look the dogs danglies.

bet you are really chuffed , alongside mine they look like they could crush it when they ride over it !

Good luck with finding a chain solution , a lot of car engines have/used to use 2 timing chains however they have a bit more engineering than
we can muster.

It are 2 heavy and very powerful quads. It pused me away wen it took af on the pass sensor. My 1000w trike doesn't do that.

As you are in the Netherlands, you need to try it.
They aren't speed demons, but very comfortable and ride smooth.
Nice to cruise especially as the roads aren't that great, they still go smooth.
Steape climbs are no problem.

It is a complete different concept than that from you. Speed vs off-road.
Cars with "two" chains driving the cam are actually just one chain called a duplex. It has two drive aspects but the chain is built in one piece. They are used where a regular single chain of the same single part dimensions can not cope or extra safety is needed due to the critical nature of a failure. Both sides drive equally due to the one piece construction. Two separate single chains will almost certainly give more issues than one stronger one IMO. A car engine is not going to have potential alignment issues either. I'm not saying two chains couldn't work, just I have my doubts. It is guaranteed that only the tightest will be loaded though so if the sprockets are even slightly out of alignment the load will swap between chains every turn which will possibly (probably?) be worse than one chain being constantly tensioned and driving. Having been geared down for torque rather than top speed also affects the lifespan of the chain. The two chains to the wheels only take the full load when the diff slips. The bulk of the time they only take half the load so will likely last longer than the motor drive one.
I have had a chain failure when far from Home (Holland 2017).
Luckily I had plenty of "kwik-links" and the chain split/join pliers. :)
Emiel this is an interesting build. I would like to see more on the front suspension. I'm working on a cargo quad with an attachable trailer to double the load capacity when needed. I personally would have used a Bafang mid drive unit on the main crankset then placed a dropped cargo floor in where you have the hub motor to lower the cargo center of gravity. Or have a storage area under the main cargo bed for tools and spare parts. In regard to the drive chains breaking, I know on the Armadillo cargo bike they have a double chain from the final drive where their pedal drivetrain and the Bafang mid drive is located in the frame under the main cargo area to the rear axle to handle the stress loads as a single chain wasn't enough.

[I will make some pictures this weekend as i disassemble The front. I need to fix one side of the steering.
The worship is very much like the photo. Only the mounting of the short arm, vertically equal to the lower arm in terms of mounting in French and it is slightly towards the frame at the handlebar. Next time, I choose what the Armadillo has. That is a bit easier with making the steering wheel. You can then work with a straight tube, put the wheel on it and mount it above and below the tube on the suspension with rod heads that are on the arms. We have also put corner magnifiers on it, so that instead of 100mm travel, we have tog over the 140mm travel.
The arms are also not in line. The top, it is backwards. You don't have to, but I chose to make it better when you go off-road. The spring is also flattened. This ensures that you get more travel without needing much longer springs. Also a bit better for off-road dn less if you only drive hardened. But if you only drive hardened, then you don't have to go so extreme with the suspension.

I have this engine because Geert had it. So that costs nothing. Only needed a controller and we can get a heavier one if we want to. But the quad now has a power of 6.625kW on both rear wheels. With testing by driving up a steep slope, I didn't even get to the 4kW. So power enough. In terms of couple, I now have more than enough. Speed is lower, but it is also not a race quad.

I would first build a trailer, but I can't store it anywhere. That's why I chose a build-up. I didn't want him too long either, because then he is also more limited with travel and off-road. That is why I chose this design. I can ride on bike paths and off-road.

I'm going to build a trailer where I can put my trike on, but also that I can put my trike, my bike or a boat on it instead. It does not take up much space and I can place it here at my quad.

A German trike builder was also working on something as big as a caravan. I just don't think he's ever put it back on it.

Next week I will finish my 2nd battery. Then I have 5kWh in total. Then hopefully get my box off this month, so that it can be on the back of the quad. The meeting is in May and then I want to finish it. Next week hopefully the bottom so far that he can go outside and the 2 parts on top of each other. Then I can do it from the outside with fiberglass, as soon as the temperatures rise a little and it stops raining.
Please correct me if I'm wrong but are you saying that you have the equivalent of 8hp on each rear wheel? Doesn't that violate EU E-Bike laws? I was under the impression that all of the EU countries were limited to 250-watts on E-Bikes and anything over that required it to be registered as a motorcycle. Here in the US, we are limited to 750-watts but can in some places use higher which is a class 4 E-Bike, but you can only ride them in special areas and nowhere else. I also believe that anything past 2000-watts is considered an electric motorcycle in the states and requires tags and insurance at that point. But yeah, if I'm understanding you right and your using kW in place of HP then you basically have a pedal assisted go-kart at that point. Not saying I disapprove but law enforcement might. I know here they would be all over anything with an obvious gas or diesel engine. Electric bicycle motor units either a hub or BB mid drive they tend to stop you once and a while to make sure it's 750-watt or less. But most the time unless you're doing something stupid or going insanely fast for a bicycle they don't care. Here in Missouri, we are limited to Class 1, Class 2, or Class 3 E-Bikes. Class 4 are prohibited and anything powerful enough to be a Class 4 or E-motorcycle would just be tagged and insured at that point anyway. Here is the Class system used in the states.

  • Class 1: pedal-assist only, no throttle, maximum assisted speed of 20 mph. Allowed on bike lanes, bike paths, and on the road.
  • Class 2: throttle-assist, maximum speed of 20 mph. Allowed on bike lanes, bike paths, and on the road.
  • Class 3: pedal-assist only, no throttle, maximum assisted speed of 28 mph. Allowed on the road, but not on bike lanes or bike paths.
  • Class 4: may have a top speed of over 28 mph and motor wattage over 750W. Not allowed on public roads or bike paths.
The model of Bafang mid drive and control unit allows me to switch between the three class modes that are allowed where I live. Not that I picture something the size of an Amadillo with trailer moving that fast in the first place. Not loaded anyway and most certainly not on some of the hills around here.

As far as my suspension needs it would be both paved and offroad. Most the areas I travel to have paved streets or bike paths, but the back roads are a clay and gravel lane and a half wide sometimes two-lane wide trail through farmland in the mountains. Rough when dry, messy and muddy when wet, and downright nearly impossible in the winter. Hence why I want to do suspension and AWD on my quad. I'm also looking to have some form of locked storage box for tool, spare parts, and the electronics and batteries for the e-drive. This box would be mounted behind the rider ahead of the main cargo area possibly hanging over the main frame of the bike like pannier bags with the large top bag that spans the two side pannier bags and the rack on back of a normal bike. Except this would be hard shell and tall enough to form the back wall of the rider compartment. I want to have a semi enclosed cab over the rider for rainy days and have the ability to close it in fully in the winter. I would then use the 12v dc chicken coop heaters to have some heat in the space. By rider cab I mean something like seen here on this Armidillo being used as a Taxi.


I would have the back section that is white on the rider cab be basically twice that length and extending down to the sides of the frame between the wheels to store everything mentioned maybe even a few full wheel and tire sets for quick change when it's not safe to do a tube patch or replacement on the side of the road. The trailer would be the standard flatbed with removable dry boxes like the normal Armadillo has. On top of the rider cab and equipment storage box would be solar panels to aid in recharge of main batteries and any spares that are carried. I don't like the design of the Taxi trailer, or the other enclosed low floor max height cargo trailer another company makes for the Armadillo. To me they are too low to the ground and just asking to get high centered on a curb or other obstacle. Now if either was the same height as the main Armadillo Quad in terms of ground clearance, I wouldn't have any issue. Well except maybe weight or turning radius at that point. I can't find any pictures of the other trailer only the crowdfunding campaign video but it's longer than a standard Armadillo trailer with multiple digital displays on the sides and rear and a large roll up door on the side for loading. It appears to be lower to the ground than the taxi trailer maybe two to three inches of ground clearance. Basically, if you made that taxi trailer a square box shape and extended the rear to overhang the trailer wheels the amount the front over hangs the quad's rear wheels and made the middle space where the floor is about eight foot long with a six foot long roll up door you would have the monster of a trailer that was in the video. The video stated something like 600-kg of cargo, or 3.5 Euro pallets could be loaded into it. I wouldn't want to pull that on flat ground and most certainly not on hills. As far as I can tell the company behind that trailer didn't reach their crowdfunding goals and the website listed on the trailer displays goes to an empty domain. I know the area where I ride at you need 8 - 10 inches of ground clearance to avoid bottoming out the frame when hitting potholes or large rocks and tree limbs that are across the back roads at times. I borrowed a friends reverse trike to see if I loved the laid-back riding position of a recumbent and found it to be too low for back road use but fine on the paved roads and paths. The frame under the seat kept hitting the ground on rougher patches of the back roads.

Oh hey, after some searching, I found the site for the other cargo trailer for the Armadillo.

Shuttlebox eCargo - Partnering With Mental Health - a Transport crowdfunding project in London by Shuttlebox (crowdfunder.co.uk)

I think that trailer is so large and heavy that it has motorcycle wheels on it. But you can see it's lower to the ground than the modified Armadillo that is pulling it. By the way this is where I got the idea for the side equipment storage boxes between the quad's wheels. Now draw a straight line from the top rear of the cab straight down to the side boxes and picture a box there up to the back of the seat with a headrest on the wall.

On a side note, while talking with the Pony4 manufacture I learned that they worked on quite a few quad bike designs. This is from an email from them...
My advice regarding the frame is based on our experience. We have helped in development and produced many types of bikes ourselves (Waw Velomobile, Velove Armadillo, Pony4, VM-45 (now working prototype),
Quadvelo etc.).

I found it interesting that I have looked at all of those designs for ideas on the steering and suspension.
The motor rules are a bit more complicated like that.
Most ebikes have more than 250w. You can see it by juist looking ad the torque that they give.
E-bikes manufactures use 250w nominal. Most motors are about 350 to 500w, but cargo bikes use currently a 750 or higher. Limited to 25kmh and they are legal.
As they check your bike, they only check the top speed. As long as you stay under 27kmh, it is ok.

Throttle is allowed but max 6kmh.
You may use it as walk assist.

We added a throttle on our quads. We didn't limited to 6kmh.
We are going to insure our quads as a mobility scooter. That means that we can drive with a throttle. It must be limited to 25kmh. If you want 45kmh, you must have the vehicle inspected.

Controler is 1500w that we use. Motor 2400w.

My pland where first to make it like the armadillo. But when i wanted to build it, Geert wanted also a quad that could go off-road. I liked the idea and we builded these quads.

I went to the workplace where they design the quads and trikes, likd the pony 4. I got a new chain for my trike.
He was building a bicycle camper. It was big. I only never heart of he finished it.

The armadillo is designed for an other country in the Netherlands. The first one. After that, many versions came out, based on that one.
There are many versions.
The taxi and large black cargo trailer ones? I don't see them but if others can then ok. I was worried that I was making references to pictures that couldn't be seen.
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