Never as easy as you at first thought is it?

We've all experienced the phenomenon where what appeared to be a simple job turns into something much more complicated haven't we?
Today was one of those days. :)
I have been messing around looking to see how I might more cheaply build 2WD units for Delta trikes and Quads with a mid-drive and RWD .
The last one I made used 2 single speed freewheels and a host of bolts.
The freewheels were not cheap One was a Sturmey Archer and the other a "Dicta". Both of these are around £15 new.
The good thing about the Dicta freewheel is that it has no internal shoulder on the threaded portion so it can be mounted round the "wrong" way and provide a forward motion freewheel for the LH wheel of your axle.

I thought I had found a much cheaper source of such an ambidextrous freewheel (£6.99) as all the pictures appeared to show a "through" thread with no visible shoulder.

They arrived today and well blow me down, while they are a nice smooth ratcheting freewheel (better than a lot of the junk that's "cheap") the threading does not however go completely through, they have left about 1mm of unthreaded sleeve. Rats!

So we need to gently and sensitively machine that off. Cue "lathe-boy".

But wait! the bit you need to remove can't be removed because the inner sleeve "freewheels" on the ratchets.
Ahhh... OK we'll run the lathe in reverse and attack it from the rear (oo-err missus).
But wait! Most of the tooling you have assumes you are doing "normal stuff" in the right direction so you have to get "tricky".
What A pain in the proverbial! :mad:

I tried several tools but effectively you are trying to use 12mm shanked tools inside a pipe and the tool's relief is such that the metal of the tool hits the wall before the carbide insert bites and you end up graunching up the tool holder.

I tried lots of different positions and insert angles but I just couldn't get my tool in there properly to get the job done (story of my life really).

VERY frustrating indeed. I got most of it removed but not enough to allow free threading all the way through.
In the end I chucked the freewheel round the wrong way and used a boring bar in reverse (working from the inside -> outside), working mostly blind and by feel/noise.

image.png


Hurrah! Job done. The freewheel on the right has had the unthreaded section machined away to allow it to thread on so it can be used as a LH drive in a ratchet differential. The one on the left is threaded on up to the stop and in use would be threaded on the RH side providing a RH ratchet freewheel of the 2WD.

I can now make something no-one has asked for or probably wants (except maybe the pedal-car folks) but it satisfies a curiosity "itch" and is half the price. :) The 2WD inserts for the axles would be in Aluminium with flanges to act as stops. No bolts between L & R sides this time, just a joining tube welded to each sprocket with 3 decent tack-welds.

Just something to stop me going crazy while my knee gets better. :)
 
Well done Danny. You got there in the end and that's half the fun of this bike building lark.

I kind of hoped you might struggle on with the pedal crank tilting mechanism and invent a whole new rear end setup which worked so I could copy it to make a three wheeled 'skinny' trike which I could use on my narrow lanes. Something no wider than me would be really good and take up no more road width than a two wheeler. Too much to hope for I know and even if it was useable on smooth roads I doubt it would cope with my potholed lanes and grass verges close at the nearside. It also would struggle to keep me upright when I'd want a much higher seating position than most tilters use and suspension too!!!

I'm working on my next two wheeled bike now- not cos I need it but just to keep my brain working. Not looking forward to winter when neither me or Ben will really fancy long hours in the workshop.

John
 
Well done Danny. You got there in the end and that's half the fun of this bike building lark.

I kind of hoped you might struggle on with the pedal crank tilting mechanism and invent a whole new rear end setup which worked so I could copy it to make a three wheeled 'skinny' trike which I could use on my narrow lanes. Something no wider than me would be really good and take up no more road width than a two wheeler. Too much to hope for I know and even if it was useable on smooth roads I doubt it would cope with my potholed lanes and grass verges close at the nearside. It also would struggle to keep me upright when I'd want a much higher seating position than most tilters use and suspension too!!!

I'm working on my next two wheeled bike now- not cos I need it but just to keep my brain working. Not looking forward to winter when neither me or Ben will really fancy long hours in the workshop.

John
Thanks John,

I do many of these daft things just out of curiosity and to see if I actually can. They are brain-teasers.
The i-lean isn't totally dead yet, but I have been having some pain issues with my right knee that mean I find pedalling painful and these little musings and dabblings just keep me sane.
My idea for the i-lean was always just to try it on soft grassy ground not hard angry roads, so it may yet get made and tested...who knows?
Everyone seems to be mad for "Quads" and I do feel left out, but I have no room for such a thing.

I hope you are well and things are better for you than they have been of late. Take care, and thanks for stopping by. :)
 
Just to add to the story a little bit.
** As it is Ukraine based "Postimage" appears to be having issues right now -- I will add the pictures later.**

Here are those 2 cheap freewheels and a bit of 60mm tube.

It can be narrower than this as there is a fair 1/2" of separation between the 2 freewheels inside the tube. So the tube can be shortened a bit.


Happily, the 60mm tube is fractionaly too big to fit over the freewheel shells and a simple slit along the tube and a jubilee clip closing it up again will render it a very tight fit and it can be welded to stay at this smaller size.
Then, 3 tacks on each side to anchor the tube to the sprockets of the freewheels will be enough, rather than 5 or 6 sets of nuts & bolts.

The machined drive inserts to go inside each side will have "stop" flanges.
The best drive option is a matching keyway in the axle and the drive insert as this means you do not need to align things in 2 dimensions like you do for a roll-pin or dowel.
 
The machined drive inserts to go inside each side will have "stop" flanges.
The best drive option is a matching keyway in the axle and the drive insert as this means you do not need to align things in 2 dimensions like you do for a roll-pin or dowel.
very impressive so far , is there some freedom to allow for the parts to be slightly out of alignment ?

Paul
 
very impressive so far , is there some freedom to allow for the parts to be slightly out of alignment ?

Paul
I would hope that the parts would be in very close/good alignment as a finished unit.
Maybe the best way to deploy it would be to have the outboard axle-bearings on adjustable plinths/slots to get the optimum alignment.
As it has a 20T 1/8th" input (either side) an intermediate IGH would be the best driver for it.
I am also looking at a cassette hub version with an adapter between the cassette side and the freewheel side.
This is a bit trickier as it restricts the RH axle size to the cassette.
Just interesting projects of mine with no real application I am likely to use.
 
Hmm I didn't explain that very well me thinks......

This relies on 2 half shafts and 4 pillow block bearing ?

Having been fighting an arrangement like that on the ' pedal car from hell ' I am beginning to think that way is very very difficult to build with enough accuracy [ or even adjustment potential ] for the 2 shafts in the middle to be within say 1mm of each other in each plane.

Either the Italians rigid axle :-

rigid-rear-axle.jpg


or

A 2 chain solution :-

IMG-0016.jpg
Stands more chance of working ?

Paul
 
Good point and well made. Yes, of course a 3 chain solution takes the issue of getting it "perfect" away.
Doing it all inside the frame and with standard bike axle and flanges to weld the extra sprockets to is a good solution.
 
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