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My life with Python trikes Mk1 , Mk1.5 , Mk2 ?
- Thread starter stormbird
- Start date
Hello, Danny. Bravo. I'm suddenly & somewhat amazed. That is definitely a duh moment. Please say if there is anything I'm missing here. This is an excellent idea, sir. With the axle solidly locked stationary, as you described, the wheel can't even jiggle, so a dial guage is the proper tool for that job. (Hang on whilst I do a few more knucklwhead duhs on myself.)
DannyC
0
Well everybody else manages just fine with eyeball and a standard truing gauge (which I didn't have, so this was my answer to the problem.
Ok back to the new handle bars ?
nether of the bolts were good holding the old bars , so I made up a new plate with 2 M8 bolts welded to the back of it and joined the 2 existing bolt holes to make a slot.
Plate was then welded inside from the front , luckily the bronze painted bit was 2mm and the plate a scrap of 4mm so nice easy weld however you don't half have to pour the filler in when north of 100 amps
More work in progress the new shaped half handle bar bolted up , the red bit will provide some adjustment , the black bit is current to long and needs trimming and another piece needs welding to it's end like this :-
What it needs to do is tuck under the seat like this.
Whether we can achieve that and still be able to use them is currently open to conjecture ...
This hard collision also needs sorting as it limits turning circle however easy enough to do.
very surprised to find this when I took the front off for welding ! the rod ends look completely unaffected by being used for 2 years on the road !!!
In the past these would have been scrap after 12 months , Pegasus pivot method is brilliant and highly recommended.
So plenty to do however heading in the right direction I think
Paul
nether of the bolts were good holding the old bars , so I made up a new plate with 2 M8 bolts welded to the back of it and joined the 2 existing bolt holes to make a slot.
Plate was then welded inside from the front , luckily the bronze painted bit was 2mm and the plate a scrap of 4mm so nice easy weld however you don't half have to pour the filler in when north of 100 amps
More work in progress the new shaped half handle bar bolted up , the red bit will provide some adjustment , the black bit is current to long and needs trimming and another piece needs welding to it's end like this :-
What it needs to do is tuck under the seat like this.
Whether we can achieve that and still be able to use them is currently open to conjecture ...
This hard collision also needs sorting as it limits turning circle however easy enough to do.
very surprised to find this when I took the front off for welding ! the rod ends look completely unaffected by being used for 2 years on the road !!!
In the past these would have been scrap after 12 months , Pegasus pivot method is brilliant and highly recommended.
So plenty to do however heading in the right direction I think
Paul
need to remove 2 strengthening washers welded on to the top of the main frame, they were actually only welded to aid reassembly [ not so many pieces to juggle with ] and are now hindering the rear seat mount freely sliding up the frame.
The big holes were for the elastomer fastening , the small hole ? unsure this has been re-purposed so many times it could be the rod end mount from tilt number 1 ?
New rear seat mount made , it is a copy of the ZOX method of making an adjustable mount [ it slides along the main frame ] it is weak about the middle M8 bolt and when the first Python was hit by a mountain biker the steel bent at that point but did not snap.
Plenty of clearance for rack , however once I have found the seat position I need I will tie the 2 together as I hope to mount 4 panniers on the rack [ apart from tent @ sleeping bag ] all my Dutch camping load in fact.
I usually find the seat position by measuring the BB centre to the seat front 28.5" , however I now have short pedals [ IIRC 150's ] and so did not realise I have to move the seat forward by the crank length difference ? 170mm - 150mm = 20mm else my knees suffer.
Paul
] and are now hindering the rear seat mount freely sliding up the frame.
The big holes were for the elastomer fastening , the small hole ? unsure this has been re-purposed so many times it could be the rod end mount from tilt number 1 ?
New rear seat mount made , it is a copy of the ZOX method of making an adjustable mount [ it slides along the main frame ] it is weak about the middle M8 bolt and when the first Python was hit by a mountain biker the steel bent at that point but did not snap.
Plenty of clearance for rack , however once I have found the seat position I need I will tie the 2 together as I hope to mount 4 panniers on the rack [ apart from tent @ sleeping bag ] all my Dutch camping load in fact.
I usually find the seat position by measuring the BB centre to the seat front 28.5" , however I now have short pedals [ IIRC 150's ] and so did not realise I have to move the seat forward by the crank length difference ? 170mm - 150mm = 20mm else my knees suffer.
Paul
Ok the price of tilting ?
2.4 kg or 5.3 lb old money , ok I have not taken into account the seat rails I have had to replace however it ws still a bit of a shock !
This is about 1/4 of my camping load !
In reality it is a complete second main spine from pivot to rear wheel so not surprising really
Paul
2.4 kg or 5.3 lb old money , ok I have not taken into account the seat rails I have had to replace however it ws still a bit of a shock !
This is about 1/4 of my camping load !
In reality it is a complete second main spine from pivot to rear wheel so not surprising really
Paul
Ok so now 2 Pythons with no tilt ?
So Tilt#5 has become NO.T#5 [ no tilt [ see ]]
and Tilt#6 has become NO.T#6 [ no tilt [ see ]]
Ridden NO.T#6 Monday and to be honest I was under whelmed , as I was with NO.T#5 , the ride is so uncomfortable !
It seems that as well as tilting the elastomers were giving a much improved ride without really feeling you had suspension.
So a bit of a dilemma do I accept the cycle tracks are so much better in the Netherlands I don't need the missing improved ride ?
Do something to mimic suspension ? add a pivot the front of the seat subframe [ going across the frame ] and a single elastomer at the rear [ some up/down no tilt ]
Add the tilt back to one of them and use it for this trip ?
They both currently need a lot of work for the Dutch sojourn and I am unsure which to ride ?
So Tilt#5 has become NO.T#5 [ no tilt [ see ]]
and Tilt#6 has become NO.T#6 [ no tilt [ see ]]
Ridden NO.T#6 Monday and to be honest I was under whelmed , as I was with NO.T#5 , the ride is so uncomfortable !
It seems that as well as tilting the elastomers were giving a much improved ride without really feeling you had suspension.
So a bit of a dilemma do I accept the cycle tracks are so much better in the Netherlands I don't need the missing improved ride ?
Do something to mimic suspension ? add a pivot the front of the seat subframe [ going across the frame ] and a single elastomer at the rear [ some up/down no tilt ]
Add the tilt back to one of them and use it for this trip ?
They both currently need a lot of work for the Dutch sojourn and I am unsure which to ride ?
| feature | NO.T#5 | NO.T#6 |
| gears | 3 x 7 | 2 x 7 |
| luggage | 1 pannier | rack for 2 panniers may fit NO.T#5 |
| trailer towing [ my new small trailer ] | yes - probably can | yes - has |
| frame height + redundant parts + paint | low - yes - needs some - very dirty | high - no - needs some - slightly less dirty |
| handle bars | to tall - need painting | uncomfortable not sure why - need painting |
| lights | front only | front & back |
| mudguards | no | yes - wobbly & noisy |
| fit fairing ? | maybe - untried | did while building un - untried since finished |
Lots to think about and do then.
Thursdays call to chew the cud ?
NO.T#5 rules itself out really as the fairing [ the non trailer option ] won't easily fit as the brakes/their cables are on the top of the rear axle and not underneath. A lot of work to get them underneath.
Paul
Hi all
A new year and still riding Pythons
This is the first week I managed the long journey Mon , Wed & Fri blooming cold -4c and a wind chill of -11c yikes.
It was manageable with 17 items of clothing on ! almost my full winter wardrobe well at least and still move around.
Lost my fingers on and off least I can stick my hands under armpits and steer with my feet.
Toes go cold on the down hills but recover when the pistons are driving me uphill.
Why go out ? well the sun's shining rain is predicted for next week and each day was a ' glad to be alive day '
I pass the local hospital and wonder how many in there are looking out the window wishing we could change places ?
Paul
A new year and still riding Pythons
This is the first week I managed the long journey Mon , Wed & Fri blooming cold -4c and a wind chill of -11c yikes.
It was manageable with 17 items of clothing on ! almost my full winter wardrobe well at least and still move around.
Lost my fingers on and off least I can stick my hands under armpits and steer with my feet.
Toes go cold on the down hills but recover when the pistons are driving me uphill.
Why go out ? well the sun's shining rain is predicted for next week and each day was a ' glad to be alive day '
I pass the local hospital and wonder how many in there are looking out the window wishing we could change places ?
Paul
So laying in bed contemplating my navel I realised I had wangled another trip to the Netherlands and yet again I faced going with a python that was barely adequate.
The current ride was lacking in low gears and had a poor high gear ratio mainly due to the front mech control become unresponsive.
So easy you say new cable and some adjustment and we are good to go ?
Well actually no the problem is more I have a 28T - 38T - 48T driving a vanilla 14T - 28T cassette , so maximum gear inch spread is only 45gi
The hills are so steep around here I need a 1 : 1 low gear this means there is almost no top gear without the front mech then stopping working
.
However due to the kindness of Popshot I have a N360 CVT hub which has a maximum gear inch spread of 55gi enabling me to still have a 1 : 1 however
I would gain the equivalent of 3 more gears at the top end , single changer and being able to change whilst stationary.
So yes there is a downside the WEIGHT they are an eye watering 2.5kg !!!
Much guidance has and will be forth coming from DannyC who already uses a N380.
So the mis guided plan is to refurbish the front end on the old #5 [ which is actually based on the first Python I built 10 years ago ], try to lose some steel and not worry to much.
It is after all a tourer , I am currently almost that amount over weight and if I made the rear able to carry my camping gear so not towing a trailer it should be win , win , win ?
This is the front end , it is very tired from being used over several winters and receiving almost no maintenance for a couple of years.
Although oddly the gears work better than the one I currently ride !
Total weight as pictured [ no brake levers ] is 10.25 kg
Mainly rust and neglect.
Despite every thing this still worked , although the lower jockey wheel is very very stiff.
Least the wheels have some teeth on them.
This was the one it replaced , so some way to go yet ......
Only kidding rescue cable parts and off to the bin it goes.
Paul
The current ride was lacking in low gears and had a poor high gear ratio mainly due to the front mech control become unresponsive.
So easy you say new cable and some adjustment and we are good to go ?
Well actually no the problem is more I have a 28T - 38T - 48T driving a vanilla 14T - 28T cassette , so maximum gear inch spread is only 45gi
The hills are so steep around here I need a 1 : 1 low gear this means there is almost no top gear without the front mech then stopping working
.
However due to the kindness of Popshot I have a N360 CVT hub which has a maximum gear inch spread of 55gi enabling me to still have a 1 : 1 however
I would gain the equivalent of 3 more gears at the top end , single changer and being able to change whilst stationary.
So yes there is a downside the WEIGHT they are an eye watering 2.5kg !!!
Much guidance has and will be forth coming from DannyC who already uses a N380.
So the mis guided plan is to refurbish the front end on the old #5 [ which is actually based on the first Python I built 10 years ago ], try to lose some steel and not worry to much.
It is after all a tourer , I am currently almost that amount over weight and if I made the rear able to carry my camping gear so not towing a trailer it should be win , win , win ?
This is the front end , it is very tired from being used over several winters and receiving almost no maintenance for a couple of years.
Although oddly the gears work better than the one I currently ride !
Total weight as pictured [ no brake levers ] is 10.25 kg
Mainly rust and neglect.
Despite every thing this still worked , although the lower jockey wheel is very very stiff.
Least the wheels have some teeth on them.
This was the one it replaced , so some way to go yet ......
Only kidding rescue cable parts and off to the bin it goes.
Paul
Very kind of you to offer that.
I do actually have several Nexus 7 speeds however they are only equivalent to the existing 14T - 28T cassette so I am not gaining much by using one ?
Paul
So the front end with NuVinci never got built as a pedal car turned up followed by a ' why not ' compete in the world championships [ more wasted time].
So the current Python ride has had a refurbish new front mech cable , more oil down the brake cables , 3 new tyres and a new chain.
Good clean down reveals some rust on the front part , we may go to the Netherlands and back in 2024 with the rust intact
I built a new ' small ' trailer 2 years ago and it needs to go again however it now has 16" wheels instead of 20" and has a slight nose up stance now , will it be ok or do I need to get it level ?
On the front path and ready to go , strapped a dummy load to the front of the trailer , a paper bag full of wood scraps figured they would not rattle on the ride.
Obligatory leaving Mansfield pose , you can just see the ' new ' trailer angle and smaller wheels.
Mum [ who is 87 ] managed to take you a slightly blurry picture of me about to depart into the rain , not a great idea when your load is in a paper sack !
We got home safely and no unusual noises of bottoming out of the trailer so it seems to work.
Netherlands now only 25 days away........
Paul
So the current Python ride has had a refurbish new front mech cable , more oil down the brake cables , 3 new tyres and a new chain.
Good clean down reveals some rust on the front part , we may go to the Netherlands and back in 2024 with the rust intact
I built a new ' small ' trailer 2 years ago and it needs to go again however it now has 16" wheels instead of 20" and has a slight nose up stance now , will it be ok or do I need to get it level ?
On the front path and ready to go , strapped a dummy load to the front of the trailer , a paper bag full of wood scraps figured they would not rattle on the ride.
Obligatory leaving Mansfield pose , you can just see the ' new ' trailer angle and smaller wheels.
Mum [ who is 87 ] managed to take you a slightly blurry picture of me about to depart into the rain , not a great idea when your load is in a paper sack !
We got home safely and no unusual noises of bottoming out of the trailer so it seems to work.
Netherlands now only 25 days away........
Paul
Ok so wasn't happy with trailer angle so a quick hack of 2 mending plates dropped the hitch by 1.5"
Not quite 2" but close enough....
With 20" wheels trailer weighed 7.9 kg now with 16" wheels it is down to 7.15 kg
Not to shabby as a normal trailer would be about 15kg.
My camping gear weighs under 10 kg so the trailer is still over kill for what it carries.
Paul
Not quite 2" but close enough....
With 20" wheels trailer weighed 7.9 kg now with 16" wheels it is down to 7.15 kg
Not to shabby as a normal trailer would be about 15kg.
My camping gear weighs under 10 kg so the trailer is still over kill for what it carries.
Paul
DannyC
0
By contrast, my trailer weighs about 20Kg and is rated for 100Kg loads.Ok so wasn't happy with trailer angle so a quick hack of 2 mending plates dropped the hitch by 1.5"
Not quite 2" but close enough....
With 20" wheels trailer weighed 7.9 kg now with 16" wheels it is down to 7.15 kg
Not to shabby as a normal trailer would be about 15kg.
My camping gear weighs under 10 kg so the trailer is still over kill for what it carries.
Paul
It needs this because well....... Batteries & chargers, 5-burner gas hob, hot-tub and air-fryer.
Probably would have been easier to just put Pauls stuff in my trailer and let him tow it all.
By contrast, my trailer weighs about 20Kg and is rated for 100Kg loads.
It needs this because well....... Batteries & chargers, 5-burner gas hob, hot-tub and air-fryer.
Probably would have been easier to just put Pauls stuff in my trailer and let him tow it all.
Not without me vetting the contents your not
On the face of it it is not a bad idea , the reality of camping gear is it not about the weight it's the volume that is where his plan falls down [ luckily for me ]
Paul
ps of course DannyC could maybe get an increase in range by swapping my ' high volume - low weight load ' for his ' low volume - high weight ' load least he will be on the ferry before he figures that out
So what has been happening in my Python world ?
Well I got diverted by cobbling together this Python LowRacer trike for the WC2024 held in the UK this year. I came 112th out of 121 happy with that. LowRacer Build post #58 on-wards
However it created some problems on my return to my normal ride.
After riding this LowRacer for 100+ miles in 2 weeks , my touring Python was used last Friday it was pants !
The LowRacer has a Nexus 7 , I expected to feel the drag from it and lack of direct drive yet it was the tourer that seemed very sluggish and like you were pedaling through treacle.
Now the LowRacer is 17.76kg and the Tourer 22.95 kg is it simply the weight that is causing this ? all 5.19kg of it ?
Am I more streamlined on the LowRacer ?
So this is the currently family :-
On Left = LowRacer made up of Python 1 front end [ yellow ] + LowRacer rear end
Centre = Python 1 rear end
On right = Python 2 Tourer
So current plan is to make Python 1 whole again and see if it feels better than Tourer , if so I need to investigate Tourer maybe it is something simple like the tracking ?
Else could the LowRacer become my usual ride ?
Whilst it is in bits I have some plans to reduce it's weight starting with the back end.....
Paul
Well I got diverted by cobbling together this Python LowRacer trike for the WC2024 held in the UK this year. I came 112th out of 121 happy with that. LowRacer Build post #58 on-wards
However it created some problems on my return to my normal ride.
After riding this LowRacer for 100+ miles in 2 weeks , my touring Python was used last Friday it was pants !
The LowRacer has a Nexus 7 , I expected to feel the drag from it and lack of direct drive yet it was the tourer that seemed very sluggish and like you were pedaling through treacle.
Now the LowRacer is 17.76kg and the Tourer 22.95 kg is it simply the weight that is causing this ? all 5.19kg of it ?
Am I more streamlined on the LowRacer ?
On Left = LowRacer made up of Python 1 front end [ yellow ] + LowRacer rear end
Centre = Python 1 rear end
On right = Python 2 Tourer
So current plan is to make Python 1 whole again and see if it feels better than Tourer , if so I need to investigate Tourer maybe it is something simple like the tracking ?
Else could the LowRacer become my usual ride ?
Whilst it is in bits I have some plans to reduce it's weight starting with the back end.....
Paul
