Full suspension trike design and build.

[Popshot]

With double wishbones the lower arms are always longer than the top. This is to tilt the top inwards as it compresses. This is needed because as you turn hard the outside wheel takes more weight and the suspension is compressed at that side. The chassis has leaned meaning the top and bottom inner pivots have changed their relationship to each other. Getting the top to come inwards works to keep the tyre vertical despite that change in the inner pivots. By making the top even shorter in relation to the bottom you will then introduce negative camber to the outer wheel as it leans in a turn. This puts the wheel at a better angle to the road to avoid the tyre rolling around the rim or worst case being rolled completely off it. Go too far with shortening the top one and the tops of the outer tyre can start to want your leg space depending on the overall track and amount of lock.

 

[QueenOfSkulls]

No that will make that your wheel will hang over in a corner. Making the bottom one longer makes that it stays upright

sorry... I mean make the arms the same size but increase the width of the bottom attmenent points OK I see now I needed to see the difference

same length

https://imgur.com/nMU49AT

https://imgur.com/r6AHhZW

Bottom longer

https://imgur.com/9O99IQ5

https://imgur.com/hERSdRa

I understand it. I have another question

Why not a McPherson strut... It simplifies the design. I mean it doesnt look as cool and you cant dial in the camber sure... but how fast is everyone planning on going? is this for a race trike?? just for looks? I mean you guys can't be going that hard around corners. I have made some hard turns on my dad's catrike 700.

 

[maddox]

Its way more costly than AL... you are looking at 2 ft of 2in od for 300 bucks.. depending on the tube of Al you can get 3in od and .25in walls 8 foot long for that price.

More like €60/m for grade 2, 2" wall 1/16.

 

[QueenOfSkulls]

More like €60/m for grade 2, 2" wall 1/16.

I was looking a grade 9.. I thought was the stuff you are supposed to use for structural

 

[Emiel]

sorry... I mean make the arms the same size but increase the width of the bottom attmenent points OK I see now I needed to see the difference

same length

https://imgur.com/nMU49AT

https://imgur.com/r6AHhZW

Bottom longer

https://imgur.com/9O99IQ5

https://imgur.com/hERSdRa

I understand it. I have another question

Why not a McPherson strut... It simplifies the design. I mean it doesnt look as cool and you cant dial in the camber sure... but how fast is everyone planning on going? is this for a race trike?? just for looks? I mean you guys can't be going that hard around corners. I have made some hard turns on my dad's catrike 700.

You answer it yourself. Also it isn't that hard to make. My quad has the same system and it works great.

 

[maddox]

I was looking a grade 9.. I thought was the stuff you are supposed to use for structural

Grade 2 is the one I opt for for home-welding.
Grade 9 is comparable to grade 5, but with better malability, both Alpha-Beta alloys, stronger than the Grade 2.
But not weldable without a transition to Alpha phase around the welds, making those brittle.

 

[QueenOfSkulls]

Grade 2 is the one I opt for for home-welding.
Grade 9 is comparable to grade 5, but with better malability, both Alpha-Beta alloys, stronger than the Grade 2.
But not weldable without a transition to Alpha phase around the welds, making those brittle.

Well... I need to design a bike then think about welding AL... Which means I need a proper tig... or I can just steel myself. And do steel frame because a tig welder is pricey and I got a stick buzz box. My nasa certed welder I go to for welding retired.

 

[maddox]

Well... I need to design a bike then think about welding AL... Which means I need a proper tig... or I can just steel myself. And do steel frame because a tig welder is pricey and I got a stick buzz box. My nasa certed welder I go to for welding retired.

That's a pity. But as Brad -our leader- shows, even an old buzzbox can do well.

 

[Emiel]

Some small changes to the plans are made today and yesterday.
I talked with Maddox and badass cycles about the design and materials that we are going to use.

Stainless steel will be normal steel.
Cheaper, but it is also bit lighter.
We will poedercoat the trikes.

The second thing is the mounting of the wheels.
15mm alles and mounted like most other trikes that are on the marked.
Loose one side a bit and you can slide the wheel with axle from the trike.
As soon as i have the model, i will post the images on how it will look and work.

The mounting from the arms will also be a bit different. All tubes from the arms will now be 25mm instead of 25 and 32mm.

We discussed a few details on what things to use, how the make the parts that are adjustable and what materials and if we would use 3d prints.
3D prints will be used the make the front part adjustable. It will be sitting inbetween the 2 tubes that slide in and out to get your pedal position on the right spot. This makes that the paint will be protected and the tube will not change from shape that much.

We talked about more things and we will build them together.
Some parts will be lacer cut and other parts will be made in China.
We will use welding molds to line out the frames before welding.

I also now know how i will make the rear part.
I will start with that design, very soon.

So costs go a bit down, other materials, other wheel mounting, lower weight. Powder coating and mounting for phone, display and other things like lights, fenders and more, straight build into the design.

 

[stormbird]

Where to do plan on having the brakes ?

Without some more work the calipers stop you having quick release [ I mean by 1 nut NOT a Q/R ] wheels ?

All sounds really good ......

Paul

 

[maddox]

The setup for the front wheels is a variation on a drop out.

 

[Emiel]

Where to do plan on having the brakes ?

Without some more work the calipers stop you having quick release [ I mean by 1 nut NOT a Q/R ] wheels ?

All sounds really good ......

Paul

What Maddox says. We are going to use a dropout, so it slides away from the brakes.
But even as you need to remove the brakes, it isn't a problem. The front wheels don't have to be removed to put new tires on.

The system will be like other trikes have, only not with a quick release. It is possible to use it, if someone wants.

 

[stormbird]

So Emiel , Maddox & Badass Cycles is there any progress , as can be seen from my thread just using a flint axe and some moss I am slowly getting there ?

I assume as long as you keep topping up the water[jet] and don't look directly @ the laser you 3 are romping ahead ?

Can't decide whether to visit the Netherlands or not this year , if I make my mind up by Sunday night I can get 20% off the ferry fare , very tempting

Paul

 

[Emiel]

So Emiel , Maddox & Badass Cycles is there any progress , as can be seen from my thread just using a flint axe and some moss I am slowly getting there ?

I assume as long as you keep topping up the water[jet] and don't look directly @ the laser you 3 are romping ahead ?

Can't decide whether to visit the Netherlands or not this year , if I make my mind up by Sunday night I can get 20% off the ferry fare , very tempting

Paul

I am still working on the design, but that is far finished
Still the build will take some time, because we are also bissy with other things and my coming trips with my quad.

In may i am 2 weeks in Germany with my quad and in June i am a week in Apeldoorn for walking 4 days. 40km a day.

Currently i am waiting till my trike is coming back. The frame is away for a powder coat.
I hope that it will be ready this week, because i miss my trike.

My first trike is cut in pieces. I am going to make it a bit wider, the wheel base a bit shorter and it gets an other seat. It will not get an motor on it.

End of this week i start working on my quad again. It must be ready for may, so i can go to the bicycle camper meeting in Germany with it. I put the camper part back on the quad and the trailer will be carrying my trike.

I have changed some things for the new trikes. Other motor and we go for 26 inch in the rear.
I go for a tsdz8 750w motor.
I only need to work out the steering a bit more and the rear. But i will do the same steering system on my old trike, so i can test hoe it works.

As you come to the Netherlands, when will it be?
Like to see you again.

 

[Trickytrike]

Impressive project and cad development, will follow with interest.
Silly question how do you work out that with suspension travel the steering is unaffected?
Apart from laser cut plates, do you need machined parts or is it mainly tig welding tubes for arm frame etc ?

 

[Emiel]

Impressive project and cad development, will follow with interest.
Silly question how do you work out that with suspension travel the steering is unaffected?
Apart from laser cut plates, do you need machined parts or is it mainly tig welding tubes for arm frame etc ?

Thanks.
The steering i can see in the model by moving the arms. Then i see if the the wheels move. They will always do that a bit, but i try to limit it as much as possible.

There is some machining in it. The part that holds that front axle of the wheels, the wheel axle and some adjustments in the arms so we can line out the front wheels.

 

[stormbird]

I am still working on the design, but that is far finished
Still the build will take some time, because we are also bissy with other things and my coming trips with my quad.

Glad you are still using your first quad , always takes some of the pressure off the ' next ' build

As you come to the Netherlands, when will it be?
Like to see you again.

very kind of you to say so , sadly DannyC does not feel he is currently well enough to consider the trip this year.
The 20% off ferry fares was a ruse , the moment I put Bicycle in the Vehicle box the offer disappeared !
That has taken some pressure off me !

I would like to come over this year , however I don't want to taken on more that I can manage as I want to enter all 5 pedal car races this year in my own car.
The racing does stop between 30th June and the 6th of September , and wanting to avoid your school holidays as soon as possible after 30th of June would be good.

I will see what happens in the first 2 races April 6th and 2nd May , the car may need a lot of work to remain drivable.

All the best Paul

 

[Emiel]

Glad you are still using your first quad , always takes some of the pressure off the ' next ' build

very kind of you to say so , sadly DannyC does not feel he is currently well enough to consider the trip this year.
The 20% off ferry fares was a ruse , the moment I put Bicycle in the Vehicle box the offer disappeared !
That has taken some pressure off me !

I would like to come over this year , however I don't want to taken on more that I can manage as I want to enter all 5 pedal car races this year in my own car.
The racing does stop between 30th June and the 6th of September , and wanting to avoid your school holidays as soon as possible after 30th of June would be good.

I will see what happens in the first 2 races April 6th and 2nd May , the car may need a lot of work to remain drivable.

All the best Paul

My first trike was just standing here and i had removed some parts.
Now i have cut the frame in pieces to shorten it and aligned the rear.
Then it will be a good trike again with some improvements.

In augustus i am 1 or 2 weeks on a holiday and 6 till 13 June i am in Apeldoorn to walk 4 days.

But i can take my quad and ride in your direction and stay for a night on a campsite. My quad isn't that fast as my trike, but i can sleep in it and by then also carry an extra trike on the trailer.

Emiel.

 

[stormbird]

Can I ask what caster angle do you use for your trikes and quads ?

It has been suggested mine measured @ 12degrees has to much and may account for it's poor behaviour on uneven surfaces ?

Paul

 

[Emiel]

Can I ask what caster angle do you use for your trikes and quads ?

It has been suggested mine measured @ 12degrees has to much and may account for it's poor behaviour on uneven surfaces ?

Paul

On my quad i have it just below 10. 10 was good, but a bit lower makes it steering lighter. On my first trike it was way to much. On my second trike it is about 10 and the new one will also be 10.
My first trike i don't know how it went on in even services, but quad is handling with no problem.